A Response to a Reader
Below are several valid comment questions posted in response to my first blog post titled, Preliminary Thoughts on Marriage. Below is the readers questions as well as my response to the posed questions:
Hello anonymous,
Thank you for your kind words. I hope first and foremost the Lord is honored by any word that I write or speak. I will do my best to quickly and accurately answer your questions:
Attractiveness can vary from person to person and even be unbiblical, as is the case with different forms of perversion. To be attracted to something doesn’t make it biblically-beautiful. So, it is important to make a distinction between beauty and attractiveness. Beauty is spoken of in many ways in the scriptures, the beauty of holiness, the beautiful of land, the beauty of a woman, the list goes on. It is not wrong for a young man to admire the beauty of a woman or to recognize that it is indeed beautiful to him, and the same thing can be said about different forms of beauty. The scriptures tell us that the strange woman, mentioned in Proverbs 26, was beautiful and that the young man was to avoid lusting after her beauty. She was a wicked woman but even as a wicked woman the scriptures recognize that she was beautiful to the young man because she was made as a woman. We must also recognize that the scripture makes varied distinctions as to the beauty of a woman and testifies that Rachel was beautiful and Leah was "tender eyed", (Genesis 29:17). One important thing to consider is that admiring beauty and comprehending that it is legitimate is a separate distinction from lusting after it, or applying some form of expectation to that beauty, and losing attraction for it.
In my blog post, I was stating that young men need to avoid applying expectations to the natural beauty of a young woman, as it is fading in nature. That doesn’t mean a man will be less attracted to his wife on varying levels of beauty, nor does it negate the fact that the youthful physical beauty of a woman will lessen with time. Just as mans natural beauty will lessen, or anything else that is subject to the sinful decay of this earth.
If a biblical mindset is applied in the heart of a young man when choosing a bride, then, as you put it, attractiveness will not change in the heart of a man toward his bride. And as the scriptures tell us, it is perfectly legitimate for a young man (or anyone) to admire the God given natural beauty of a young woman, as long as it is viewed through the grid of scripture.
(also, I don't know if you are a young woman, but if you are, I would suggest talking to your father about this issue.)
Anonymous said:My response:
Mark, Great Blog! I am enjoying reading your post each day!!
I wanted to comment here on one thing you said....
"Young men should ask themselves, am I willing to marry a beautiful young lady who, with time, will unavoidably be a less attractive, older and ever aging woman, who will show the affects of many years of childbirth as gravity sets in? (If the Lord blesses with children).
My question here would be, by whose standard does a woman lose her attractiveness, and why was the young man looking at her physical attractiveness to begin with? Would love to hear your insights!
Hello anonymous,
Thank you for your kind words. I hope first and foremost the Lord is honored by any word that I write or speak. I will do my best to quickly and accurately answer your questions:
Attractiveness can vary from person to person and even be unbiblical, as is the case with different forms of perversion. To be attracted to something doesn’t make it biblically-beautiful. So, it is important to make a distinction between beauty and attractiveness. Beauty is spoken of in many ways in the scriptures, the beauty of holiness, the beautiful of land, the beauty of a woman, the list goes on. It is not wrong for a young man to admire the beauty of a woman or to recognize that it is indeed beautiful to him, and the same thing can be said about different forms of beauty. The scriptures tell us that the strange woman, mentioned in Proverbs 26, was beautiful and that the young man was to avoid lusting after her beauty. She was a wicked woman but even as a wicked woman the scriptures recognize that she was beautiful to the young man because she was made as a woman. We must also recognize that the scripture makes varied distinctions as to the beauty of a woman and testifies that Rachel was beautiful and Leah was "tender eyed", (Genesis 29:17). One important thing to consider is that admiring beauty and comprehending that it is legitimate is a separate distinction from lusting after it, or applying some form of expectation to that beauty, and losing attraction for it.
In my blog post, I was stating that young men need to avoid applying expectations to the natural beauty of a young woman, as it is fading in nature. That doesn’t mean a man will be less attracted to his wife on varying levels of beauty, nor does it negate the fact that the youthful physical beauty of a woman will lessen with time. Just as mans natural beauty will lessen, or anything else that is subject to the sinful decay of this earth.
If a biblical mindset is applied in the heart of a young man when choosing a bride, then, as you put it, attractiveness will not change in the heart of a man toward his bride. And as the scriptures tell us, it is perfectly legitimate for a young man (or anyone) to admire the God given natural beauty of a young woman, as long as it is viewed through the grid of scripture.
(also, I don't know if you are a young woman, but if you are, I would suggest talking to your father about this issue.)
Mark, you have done a wonderful job of addressing various forms of beauty. However, if I may, I would like to more specifically address the latter portion of the question:
[W]hy was the young man looking at her physical attractiveness to begin with?
The implication of this question is that if a young man sees the beauty of a young woman at all, he is, therefore, lusting after her beauty. I believe this to be a false assumption. Consider the following examples:
"The young woman was very attractive in appearance..." (Genesis 24:16)
"...Rachel was lovely in form, and beautiful." (Genesis 29:17)
"The woman was discerning and beautiful..." (1 Samuel 25:3)
"...She was a beautiful woman." (2 Samuel 14:27)
"The young woman was very beautiful..." (1 Kings 1:4)
"And in all the land there were no women so beautiful as Job's daughters." (Job 42:15)
The list goes on and on. All one need do is look up the word "beautiful" or "woman" in the Bible to find numerous examples. The point being, it is not a sin to recognize the beauty of a woman.
I will not even speak here of gazing on an immodest woman. I believe we all would agree upon the inappropriateness of that. I mention it only to point out that a woman need not be immodestly dressed to be "physically attractive." In fact, depending on how a young man was trained to perceive beauty, the more modestly dressed a woman is, the more "physically attractive" she may be; her modesty itself being a quality of her beauty. I digress.
Recognizing the beauty or physical attractiveness of a woman is, in a number of ways, inescapable. What would you have men do? Shall our fathers hide our sisters lest we think they're pretty? Shall every man wear a blindfold lest he see a woman?
The problem is not that men see women, but rather how they look at a woman. It's an inssue of the heart.
Posted by
Shannon |
April 18, 2005 2:59 PM
I agree with you, Shannon, for what that's worth.
Sincerely,
CS
Posted by
C.S. Hayden |
April 18, 2005 4:02 PM
A good thought, Shannon. I hope my post also conveyed what you are saying to some degree.
Posted by
Mark Stubblefield |
April 18, 2005 4:05 PM
Thank you C.S.
Yes, Mark, you did and I was certainly not contradicting anything you mentioned. Quite the opposite. My comments with phrases such as "would you", etc. were directed at the author of the initial question. I was just adding my two cents.
I would also echo your exhortation to the author to speak with their father.
Posted by
Shannon |
April 18, 2005 4:39 PM
Thank you young men for your replies. I have spoken with my father. Keep pressing towards the mark!!!!!!God Bless!!!!
Posted by
Anonymous |
April 19, 2005 11:33 AM
Mark (and Shannon),
Great insights and answers guys! This is very edifying!
An old commonly-used adage says, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." One interesting thing to me about this whole discussion is that y'all have pointed out that that statement is not entirely true. Beauty is not purely subjective. The many Bible references y'all listed demonstrate that beauty is (at least to some degree) objective.
Perhaps, building on Shannon's comments, it would be more accurate to say, "Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder."
Anyway, again, great post!
BTW, Mark, the last comment made me wonder: Have you ever thought of making the phrase "pressing toward the Mark" (or some variation) the "theme" statement of your blog?
Nathaniel
P.S. Are there any young ladies currently "pressing toward the Mark"? :-D (No need to answer that question!)
Posted by
Nathaniel the Darnell |
April 19, 2005 10:25 PM
To Mark (since this is his blog) and to Darnell (since I am addressing his comments),
Great thoughts. Our modern obsession with subjectivism has certainly clouded the thinking of many people in this area. While I agree with economists who say that value is ascribed -- that is, subject to the individual valuations that people place upon items -- I struggle with taking this thought too far. The value of God's Law, for example, cannot be given "3 out of 5 stars" since we know that His Word is our only sure foundation. (In other words, how could we give anything any "stars" without a standard of comparison. This standard is God's Law.)
Likewise, God's objective definition of beauty cannot be redefined in terms of our own perverted "attractions."
Pertaining to your question about young ladies, I know of many who are pressing toward the mark -- not the author of this blog necessarily, but rather the "mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:14). May God raise up more young men and young ladies, and may He place His blessing upon those who seek and serve Him wholeheartedly.
CS
Posted by
C.S. Hayden |
April 20, 2005 6:21 AM
Truth is truth whether or not one believes it. In a similar vein, true beauty is truly beautiful regardless of whether or not we see it as such.
The real trick is trying to figure out what true beauty is in the first place. Obviously the Bible is our standard for all of life (as CS's blog theme so aptly states), therefore it is from That Word that we should seek to define beauty.
My own knowledge on this subject, I must admit, is rather lacking as I have not put as much study in this as I aught. (Rather ironic considering my profession.)
One verse that has been instrumental to me personally (and I have heard it quoted by others often) is as follows:
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." (Philippians 4:8)
Posted by
Shannon |
April 20, 2005 11:43 AM
[edit] ^ought
Posted by
Shannon |
April 20, 2005 11:44 AM
Dear Mark,
Our friend Caleb Hayden recently sent us his blog and I happened to read your blog on his list. I think I originally posted in the wrong spot:>)
I wanted to thank you for your insightful words that express mature biblical thinking.
It is such a blessing to see Our Lord working in and through such young men like you and Caleb, it is very refreshing. I do hope you will submit your article on "Preliminary Thoughts on Marriage" to Vision Forum, or Ladiesagainstfeminism.com (they have a section for men), or some other well read forum. These thoughts need to be shared with more young men.
In addition I was very relieved to see you respond so biblically to the young single ladies who have written you. You referred them to their fathers. That is exactly the correct response. We had the same problem when young men wrote our daughter (she writes for L.A.F.) for advice and my husband responded to them directly and referred them to other sources and male authorities.
I do believe that much of this is innocent and result of not being aware of biblical authority. You handled it very kindly and delicately and I appreciate that. Young ladies can be easily wounded especially if they are unaware of proper protocol.
I don't normally look on blogs but I felt this one needed a response.
Sincerely,
Mrs. H.
Posted by
Mrs. Hollinger |
April 30, 2005 9:56 AM